Sixty-second General Assembly, Fifth Committee
December 19, 2007 (AM)
[PRODUCED FROM TRANSCRIPT]

CHAIRMAN:  I'd like to call to order the 25th Meeting of the Fifth Committee of the General Assembly.  I invite the Committee to resume its consideration of Agenda Item 128, Proposed Programme Budget for the Biennium 2008-2009.
I now invite the Chief of Service II of the Programme Planning and Budget Division, Miss Linda Wong, to introduce the Statement of Programme Budget Implications of the Draft Resolution relating to Global Efforts for the Total Elimination of Racism, Racial Discrimination, Xenophobia and Related Intolerance and the Comprehensive Implementation of and Followup to the Durban Declaration and Programme of Action contained in Document A/C.5/62/21.  miss Wong, please.
LINDA WONG:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.  Mr. Chairman, I will now introduce Document A/C.5/62/21, the Statement of Programme Budget Implications of Draft Resolution A/C.3/62/L.65/Rev.1, as orally revised.  Details of the provisions of the Draft Resolution A/C.3/62/L.65/Rev.1 as orally revised, which gave rise to the present Statement of Programme Budget Implications, are detailed in Paragraph 3 of the statement before you.
With regard to Operative Paragraphs 38 and 46, the requirements would be met from within the resources of the proposed Programme Budget for the Biennium 2008-2009 to support the bodies mentioned therein and the Special Rapporteur.  With regard to the Operative Paragraphs 50 and 53 of the Draft Resolution, the activities by which the proposed request would be carried out and the additional requirements are detailed in Paragraph 6 of the Statement.
Although the initial preliminary overall estimated additional requirements amount to $7,061,600, following a review of the proposed program of work under Sections 2, 23 and 28E of the proposed Programme Budget for the Biennium 2008-2009, an amount of $266,900, representing 253,100 under Section 2D Gem  and 13,800 under Section 28E, Administration Geneva, are proposed to be met from within the propo- -- provisions of the proposed Programme Budget for the Biennium 2008-2009.  The balance of the additional requirements up to $6,794,700 is considered to extend beyond the absorptive capacities of the provisions proposed under Section 2 of amount $4,895,923 of amount $1,898,800.
In Paragraph 9 of the Statement, it is estimated that an amount of $804,100 will be funded from available extra-budgetary resources for travel requirements of representatives from the least-developed countries and representatives of national human rights institutions and non-government organizations.  As indication in Paragraph 7 of the Statement, consultations and negotiations among member-states are still ongoing as the Preparatory Committee intends to elaborate further on the duration and level of participation to ensure a smooth and successful conference.
With regard to the regional preparatory meetings, the Secretariat needs to consult with the regional commissions to determine their absorptive capacity with regard to the requirements as detailed in Paragraph 6C.  In addition, there will continue to be internal consultations, including Secre- -- including the Secretariat would like to further consult with OHCHR, with regard to their absorptive capacity in terms of the requirements indicated in Paragraph 5B.  Sorry, Paragraph 6B.
The General Assembly is requested to take note of the preliminary requirements up to $6,794,700 would be required over and above the level of resources in the proposed Programme Budget for the Biennium 2008-2009 under Section 2 and Section 23.  The Secretary General intends to submit a detailed Programme Budget Implications upon conclusions of discussions and negotiations.  I thank you, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN:  I thank the Chief of Service II of the Programme Planning and Budget Division, Miss Linda Wong.  I now invite the Chairman of the Advisory Committee on Administrative and Budgetary Questions, Mr. Rajat Saha, to introduce the related report of that committee contained in Document A/62/7/Addendum 8 -- Addendum 28 and to make a statement.
RAJAT SAHA:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.  Mr. Chairman, the Advisory Committee has considered the Statement of the Programme Budget Implications Contained in Document A/C.5/62/21 of Draft Resolution A/62/L.65/Rev.1, as orally revised, submitted by the Secretary General in accordance with Rule 153 of the Rules of Procedure of the General Assembly.
The observations and recommendations of the Advisory Committee are contained in Document A/62/7/Add.28.  Additional information relating to the preliminary estimates of the additional requirements in this connection are annexed to the Committee's report.
The Advisory Committee recommends that the Fifth Committee inform the General Assembly that, should they adopt Draft Resolution A/C.3/62/L.65/Rev.1 as orally revised, preliminary additional requirements for the Biennium 2008-2009 up to $6,794,700 would be required over and above the level of resources in the proposed Programme Budget for the Biennium 2008-2009.  Under Section 2 $4,895,900 and Section 23 $1,898,800, representing a charge against the contingency fund.
The Committee recommends that the General Assembly take note of these preliminary estimates, upon the conclusion of discussions and negotiations and the determination of the structure of the Durban Review Conference including the regional preparatory meetings, detailed information on implic- -- financial implications will be submitted.  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN:  I thank the Chairman of the Advisory Committee on Administrative and Budgetary Questions.  I now give the floor to the Distinguished Representative of Pakistan.
PAKISTAN REPRESENTATIVE:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.  I would like to, on behalf of Group of 77 and China, thank Miss Linda Wong and the Chairman, Mr. Rajat Saha, for the introduction of their respective reports.
Needless to say, that Group of 77 and China are fully committed to support this resolution, which has been adopted by the relevant committee, after giving due consideration to all aspects of this very important and sensitive issue of the contemporary world.  And this review conference, we attach great importance to the process, the preparatory process as well as the actual conference.
And we are surprised that the Secretary General had to resort to a -- of this Rule 153, the PBI, in the context of the resources to implement the relevant provisions of this resolution.  The resolution of the Third Committee clearly indicates request to Secretary General to allocate adequate funding from the regular budget for expenses not covered in Preparatory Commission decision and so on and we have a Programme Budget Implication.
And then we are further wondering, with the ACABQ recommendation, that it is not able to give a clear recommendation, whereas it has been able to pronounce itself on similar issues originating from other committees.
So we are surprised and we would be able to follow this issue in the committee to assure -- to ensure that the resources as proposed in this resolution are transferred to the relevant accounts so the conference and these arrangements can proceed as planned.
It is extremely, as I said, sensitive and important issue for the Group of 77 and China and this conference is going to make a significant contribution to eradicate the scourge of racism, which is prevailing in many parts of the world in so many different manifestations.  We abhor that and we need to fight it together and we need the support and solidarity of the General Assembly and this committee in this struggle.  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN:  I thank the Distinguished Representative of Pakistan.  Now, are there any delegations wishing to take the floor?  I see the United States.  You have the floor, sir.
UNITED STATES REPRESENTATIVE:  I want to thank all of you, Linda Wong, the Secretariat, the Chairman of the ACABQ, you, Mr. Chairman, for your efforts to date on all these matters.  Movses, as well, you, the Secretary, thank you for all your efforts to date.
And forgive my ignorance, I just want to seek a certain clarification from the Chairman of the ACABQ, if I could.  I -- maybe it's my cursory reading and not being as expert as many of the experts here in this room.  But is this document a PBI, meaning it has budgetary implications, or is it not a PBI, meaning it doesn't have budget implications?  I just would like to seek some clarification and I would reserve, depending on that answer, just the right to ask further questions.  Thank you.
CHAIRMAN:  I thank the Distinguished Representative of the United States and I give the floor to the Chairman of the ACABQ.
RAJAT SAHA:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.  In response to the question raised, I would like to submit that the Secretary General submitted the document, which is a formal document, as a PBI of Draft Resolution A/C.3/62/L.65/Rev.1 as orally revised.
I would like to also highlight the point that, upon inquiry by the members of the Committee, the representative of the Secretary General informed the Committee that, in the recent past, following World Summit, the Secretary General recommended that the GA take note of preliminary estimates, which the General Assembly took note -- note of.  The detailed information on financial implications was submitted to the ACABQ at a later stage and its recommendations were submitted to the General Assembly.  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN:  I thank the Distinguished Chairman of the ACABQ.  I recognize the United States.  You have the floor, sir.
UNITED STATES REPRESENTATIVE:  Thank you.  And perhaps my question was confused and I apologize.  And I understand the way it was characterized by the Secretary General, but, in terms of this being a PBI, is it the opinion of the Chairman of the ACABQ that this is, in fact, a PBI like the multitude of PBIs that come before this Committee?  I appreciate your consideration.
CHAIRMAN:  I thank the Distinguished Representative of the United States.
MALE SPEAKER:  Mr. Saha?
CHAIRMAN:  Please, yeah.
RAJAT SAHA:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.  As note -- as I have mentioned earlier, this has come as a PBI to note the preliminary estimates and I repeat preliminary estimates.  The Secretary General himself has only asked the General Assembly to note this as a preliminary estimates.
In Paragraph 16, the Secretary General has stated that, upon conclusion of this end of discussions and negotiations and the determination of the structure of the Durban Review Conference, including the regional preparatory meetings, detailed information on financial implications will be submitted.  Only at that stage, Advisory Committee will reflect its views on the detailed proposals.  However, in the PBI which has been submitted, Secretary General has also stated this is up to $6.7 million.  It can -- we were told, upon inquiry, that it can go down following the discussions and negotiations.
So, at this stage, the Secretary General only wishes -- to the General Assembly to take note of the preliminary estimates and that is the reason why the Advisory Committee recommends to the Fifth Committee that the General Assembly note that, should it adopt the resolution, this is the financial consequence up to that level.  And, therefore, we have said that the Committee recommends that the General Assembly take note of the preliminary estimates.  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN:  I thank the Chairman of ACABQ.  I now recognize the Distinguished Representative of Brazil.  You have the floor.
BRAZIL REPRESENTATIVE:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and good morning to you and colleagues and thank Miss Linda Wong for presenting the Programme Budget Implications on a draft resolution.  And I repeat Draft Resolution A/C.3/62/L.61/Rev.1 [sic] orally revised with regard the Global Efforts for the Total Elimination of Racism, Racial Discrimination, Xenophobia and Related Intolerance and the Comprehensive Implementation of and Followup to the Durban Declaration Programme of Action.
I just like -- I'm just taking the floor to reaffirm the role of the Fifth Committee in this -- in the issue of the -- in the PBIs before us.  And I would like to re- -- in this regard, to support the PBIs before us and endorse the statement made by Pakistan on behalf of G77 in support of this very important financial implications that are before us.  And that's why we have to act in -- bef- -- with regard to the PBI before us in the same manner we are dealing with the other PBIs.  And, for my delegation, this PBI, we will come together with all the other PBIs that are before us.  Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN:  I thank the Distinguished Representative of Brazil.  I now give the floor to the Distinguished Ambassador of the United States.  Please, you have the floor.
UNITED STATES REPRESENTATIVE:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.  And perhaps I'm missing something, but if these are preliminary estimates, perhaps the Secretariat could give some commentary on how these preliminary estimates were actually calculated, if they were tied to any measurable indication of these proposed conferences.
And estimates -- to the Chairman of the ACABQ, have we ever dealt with preliminary estimates of this sort before in the hundreds of multitudes of conferences and the like where we've had preliminary estimates?  If you could provide some commentary on -- if that's the case.
And then, finally, it -- just a clarification.  Is it the position of the chairman and the Secretariat that there should be no budgetary implications until we have much more detailed negotiations and revised figures?  So no budgetary implications now?  Is that the position?  Thank you for the clarifications and I, again, apologize for my limited knowledge.
CHAIRMAN:  I thank the Distinguished Ambassador of the United States.  But before giving the floor to the Secretariat and also to the Chairman of ACABQ, you want to -- later, okay.  Then I'll give the floor to Miss Linda Wong, please.
LINDA WONG:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.  Perhaps I'll answer the last question first of the Distinguished Representative from the United States.  As indicated by the Chairman of the ACABQ, the Secretary General is requesting that the a- -- the General Assembly to note that the amount would be up to $6.8 million and that, following negotiations and consultations, the Secretary General intends to submit a more detailed financial implications on this Draft Resolution.  So, at this point in time, they ask -- the Secretary General is requesting the General Assembly to take note of the amount.
With regard to the first question as to the basis for the calculation of these estimates, Mr. Chairman, the Secretary General or the Secretariat has based the calculations on the standards that we do use for calculating for conference servicing.  For example, the five regional prep meetings is based on the indicated initial indications from governments who have informed the Secretariat their interest in holding the regional preparatory meetings.  And you will see, in Table 2 of the ACABQ report, the five regional preparatory committees are based on Pretoria, Bangkok, Moscow, Brasilia and these are the governments who have indicated their initial interest in holding the preparatory committee meetings.  We have used Vienna, hopeful -- because we are hoping that a country in that region will hold -- will indicate their interest to hold the meetings.
And, with regard to the other estimates, they are based on the origin of the Special Rapporteurs, where they're coming from and the staff members, where they are coming from.  So they are basis for all the calculations and the details are indeed in the report of the ACABQ.  I thank you, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN:  I thank Miss Linda Wong for the clarification.  I give the floor to the Chairman of the ACABQ.
RAJAT SAHA:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.  Two points I would like to mention.  The first one is that, following the Rules of Procedure, Rule 153 of the Rules of Procedure of the General Assembly, normally, the Secretary General puts -- places before us the Programme Budget Implications of any Draft Resolution to be adopted by the main committees.
Having said that, as I mentioned earlier, there was a case earlier, which is where the General Assembly took note of preliminary estimates and I gave the example of the World Summit.
If I -- if I -- I would like the Secretariat to find out the details, but I do recall one more case.  I think it was for the Office of the President of GA, which, of course, was dealt with directly by the Fifth Committee and the General Assembly.  But I would like Secretariat to explain that, because these are the two -- as far as I recall, are the cases before we got the third one, this one is the preliminary estimates to take note of.
As regards the budgetary implication, Linda Wong has already made the answer.  Yes, thank you.
CHAIRMAN:  Thank you, Mr. Rajat Saha.  Secretariat?  No, okay.  Okay, you confirm.  Okay, please.
MOVSES ABELIAN:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.  The case referred by the Chairman of ACABQ on the Office of the President of General Assembly, it was a little bit different scenario, but the outcome was that Fifth Committee has concluded all budget negotiations, budget was approved.  The same day, the same night, when the budget was approved, the following morning, the General Assembly, without following the procedures for the Rule 153, adopted resolution with the budgetary implications up to $980,000 and the Secretariat had no choice than to make a statement before adoption of that resolution.  Those estimates later on were reflected in the following year's budget proposals.  Thank you.
CHAIRMAN:  I thank the Secretary, Mr. Movses Abelian.  I now give the floor to the Distinguished Representative of Portugal.
PORTUGAL REPRESENTATIVE:  Thank you.  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.  Good morning, thank the Secretariat and the Chairman of the ACABQ and I thank the Secretariat with no sleep this morning.  Welcome.
And -- Mr. Chairman, the European Union just wanted to reflect that we would favor to discuss this item in an informal setting.  Informal consultations.  Thank you, sir.
CHAIRMAN:  I thank you, Distinguished Representative of Portugal.  I now give the floor to the Distinguished Representative of the United States.
UNITED STATES REPRESENTATIVE:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you both for the follow-on.
So it's my understanding, then, that the only two comparable examples to the -- this document that we have before us as to whether or not it is a PBI or not a PBI are the World Summit Outcome Document and a matter pertaining to the funding of the Office of the PGA.  That's concerning to my delegation, because we obviously have rules and procedures that we typically follow in this Committee.
I would also like to -- a clarification if I could, please, on the voluntary funding to the additional resources for this work.  Under General Assembly 40/243, we decided that the United Nations bodies may hold sessions (and I'm quoting) away from their established headquarters when a government issuing an invitation for a session to be held within its territory has agreed to defray, after a consultation with the Secretary General as to their nature and possible extent, the actual additional costs directly or indirectly involved.  I would -- I would ask -- draw your attention to that portion.
And then, if you would -- if I could direct your attention, please, to the High Commissioner for Human Rights 2002/68 Paragraph 16 on this event decides to establish a voluntary fund to provide additional resources for and enumerates a variety of items, including the effective implementation of the Durban Declaration and Programme of Action; the partit- -- (and I'm abbreviating so that I don't unnecessarily take up time) (b) the participation of people of African descent, representatives of developing countries, especially the least-development [sic] countries; (c) the activities of the Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination; (d) national, regional, international activities to counter racism and racial discrimination (and I'm abbreviating, of course); (e) the anti-racial and discrimination activities of the Anti-Discrimination Unit.
If you could, could you please -- I assume that we have figures on exactly what amounts of voluntary funds or extra-budgetary funds that we've referred to have been defrayed, pursuant to GA Resolution 40/243.  If I could just get some information on that, I would greatly appreciate it.  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN:  I thank the Distinguished Ambassador of the United States.  Before giving the floor to the Secretariat, may I give the floor to the Distinguished Representative of Australia.  You have the floor.
AUSTRALIA REPRESENTATIVE:  Excuse me.  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.  Just to support the call from my distinguished colleague from the EU -- for Portugal on behalf of the EU, CANZ would support discussing this further in informals.  Thank you.
CHAIRMAN:  I thank the Distinguished Representative of Australia.  I now give the floor to Miss Linda Wong.  Miss, you have the floor.
LINDA WONG:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.  In response to the question raised by the Distinguished Representative from the United States of America, as indicated in the report by the ACABQ, the Advisory Committee, as the regional preparatory committees, the venues and as based on indicative information received that the governments are interested in holding and that's the reason why the Secretariat would like to have further negotiation, further discussions with this government concern so that the cost as -- was read out, would be borne by the host government, pursuant to General Assembly Resolution 40/243.  As a result of that, the Secretary General is now coming to inform the General Assembly that these are preliminary estimates and they are subject to further negotiations and discussions with the interested countries concerned.
With regard to the voluntary contributions that would be raised by the High Commissioner for Human Rights, in the Statement of the Secretary General in Paragraph -- bear with me, Mr. Chairman, I'm trying to find the paragraph.  Yes, in Paragraph 9, the Secretary General has indicated that approximately $804,000 will be raised by the Office of the High Commissioner for Human rights in order to finance the travel of representatives from the least-developed countries and representatives of national human rights institutions and non-government organizations, especially those from developing countries of the region where a regional conference is being held, in accordance with the Preparatory Committee Decision PC1/12, will be funded from these extra-budgetary resources.  I thank you, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN:  I thank Miss Linda Wong.  And I now give the floor to the Chairman of the ACABQ.
RAJAT SAHA:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.  I would like to draw the attention of the members of this esteemed committee that, in our report, Add. 28, the annex portion will give the detailed information of the preliminary estimates of additional resources.  It runs into three pages of a more -- four pages.
Besides that, Linda has just now mentioned -- drew attention of Paragraph 9.  I would like also -- should the General Assem- -- should the -- should this committee decide to have discussions on this item in the informal, that both the cases of World Summit, the procedure followed, and also the Office of General -- President of GA, what exactly happened be given in writing by the Secretariat, because it's an interesting debate.  I think this should be available to the members.
I would also request the Secretary General's representative to give us the -- what exactly happened in the President --
[END OF SIDE A/BEGINNING OF SIDE B]
RAJAT SAHA:  -- the President of GA, PGA.  I don't have the -- it was immediately available, so I would like also to share this with the members of the ACABQ, because I am not 100% sure what exactly happened, but I would also like to -- I do recall such an incident and, therefore, I mentioned it.  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN:  I thank Rajat Saha.  I now give the floor to the Distinguished Representative of South Africa.
SOUTH AFRICA REPRESENTATIVE:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.  And I would like to thank Secretariat and the Chairman of the ACABQ for presenting the L.65.  We are fully appreciative of finally receiving the L.65.
I would -- at the outset, like to fully associate South Africa's -- rather South Africa associates itself fully with the remarks made by the Distinguished Representative of Pakistan on behalf of the G77 and China and Distinguished Representative of Brazil.  For historic reasons well-known to everyone in this hall, South Africa attaches great importance to the issue of attending to the historical injustices associated with racism.  And, as regards the need to reflect on this matter through programs and so on, it is -- is a very important issue for us in South Africa and for the developing world in general and we hope and believe for the rest of humanity.
And we believe that the PBIs that you are discussing, alongside the L.65, should be all -- should be all approved before we conclude our business.  Nothing should be deferred.  And we look forward to taking the discussions further in the informals.  I thank you.
CHAIRMAN:  I thank the Distinguished Representative of South Africa.  I now give the floor to the Depressive of the Republic of Korea.
REPUBLIC OF KOREA REPRESENTATIVE:  Thank you.  Chair -- thank you, Chairman, for giving me the floor and thank you very much for the Chairperson of ACABQ and also thank you very much for the Secretariat for her detailed explanation on this issue.
And I just want to -- I just wanted to make a question to help our understanding on the situation of this budget proposal.  I understand that this is some indicative estimates, because we do not have a concrete plan how to proceed this resolution in concrete ways.  However, the report, the Document A/62/7/Add.28, Page 4, it says that total estimates are anticipated to be lower if offers of government to host such regional preparatory conference is approved by the General Assembly.  In accordance with established practice, some of the cost would be borne by the host government, pursuant to GA Resolution 40/248.
With respect to this -- this point, I would like to know how much we can anticipate if there is some cost would be borne by the host government pursuant to the GA Resolution and also based on established practice.  So I know this whole estimate is indicative, so we'd like to have some rough idea how much we can expect cost could be lowered, according to the established practice.  Thank you.
CHAIRMAN:  I thank the Distinguished Representative of Republic of Korea.  I think we need to give some time to Secretariat to assemble all those answers.  I suggest that we end this deliberation and go to the informal.  I think all these answers will be provided in the informal.
United States, please, you have the floor.
UNITED STATES REPRESENTATIVE:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I didn't mean to interrupt your intervention there.  And, again, perhaps I misspoke.
The -- our inquiry is focusing on the historical language related to this work.  If you look at this language related to the work and I read some of it, particularly Paragraph 16 from the High Commissioner for Human Rights 2002/68, it enumerates a variety of areas or extra-budgetary resources would ostensibly be used to defray costs.  And the information that my delegation seeks is what amount of money was raised through voluntary contributions, historically, to defray these costs.
And I think I would ask the Chairman of the ACABQ the best way to estimate, if we don't actually have the numbers in the future, is to look at the historical nature of what voluntary contributions or extra-budgetary contributions have been to identify a reasonable course of what future voluntary contributions would be.  So I would ask the Secretariat, if I could, if we could have a historical understanding of all the extra-budgetary resources that were raised and what they were applied for for all matters pertaining to this Agenda Item.
And I would just seek confirmation, if I could, from the Chairman of the ACABQ, that, if you are going to estimate what voluntary contributions are, if you don't know -- have commitments, I would assume that the best measure or -- is the historical measure, what we've done in the past.
Finally, I would ask, if I could, please, the Secretariat, I don't think that there are that many mandates that we have adopted that have contemplated extra-budgetary resources to defray costs.  I would like some sort of understanding -- a quick-and-dirty, as they say, understanding of what the mandates that we have adopted in the past that have contemplated similar provisions of extra-budgetary resources, what those mandates are, the amount of voluntary or extra-budgetary contributions that were raised and the amount of core resources that we have then had to apply to these items.  It shouldn't be that hard to identify (I think, I don't know, perhaps I'm speaking out of turn) the -- all the different mandates and there can't be that many in the past where we have said we will defray additional budgetary costs with extra-budgetary or, if you will, voluntary resources.
So I think, if we're truly going to estimate commitments, when we don't know those commitments, I would like to see and I think it would be useful for the member-states to see all those mandates (and there shouldn't be that many) that contemplated defrayal of costs by extra-budgetary resources, the amount of those contributions, what they were applied for and whether or not there were budgetary resources -- core budgetary resources that were used in that matter.  And I thank you and perhaps the Chairman of the ACABQ could comment as to whether that information would be useful if we don't know realistic voluntary contributions, thank you.
CHAIRMAN:  I thank the Distinguished Ambassador of the United States.  Mr. Rajat Saha, please.
RAJAT SAHA:  Mr. Chairman, the suggestion of the Distinguished Ambassador of United States has been noted and I will definitely request the Secretary General's representative to give us the historical data.  But I would also like to emphasize one point, which the Secretary General himself has stated, that it's upon the conclusion and discussions and negotiations and the determination of the structure of the Durban Review Conference, including the regional preparatory meetings, detailed information on financial implications will be submitted.  Each of these discussions could trigger off independent assessment of what the costs would be and it may or may not have relevance to the historical data.
But should the Secretary General give us this information, we would be happy to look at it.  However, as -- in Paragraph 9, there have been some indications, if there are other indications which come following the conclusion of these negotiations, we will also look into those matters before we reflect our views on the subject.  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN:  I thank Mr. Rajat Saha.  I have three delegation wishing to take the floor.  Cuba, Brazil and Pakistan.  I'll give the floor in that order -- and South Africa.  And I think -- after that, I think we intend to close this deliberation and we go into informal.  Distinguished Representative of Cuba, please, you have the floor.
CUBA REPRESENTATIVE:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.  That was exactly what I was going to request.  And that is if we could end the debate on this.  It's not the first time we've had a discussion on this type of topic.  Representatives of the Secretariat always give the same replies, too.  The replies can be given in informals.  It's not the first time, so why -- we can't understand why we're going on and on.  If we change format and stay in the room, fine, but if we're going to continue as a plenary formal, then, as the EU and CANZ said, I would suggest that we go into informals to discuss this topic.  Thank you.
CHAIRMAN:  I thank you, Distinguished Representative of Cuba.  You seem to be reading my mind.  Now I wish to give the floor to the Distinguished Representative of Brazil.
BRAZIL REPRESENTATIVE:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.  And also to agree with -- join colleagues to have further debates on that on the informal negotiations to that with the other PBIs.
And we would just like to -- that some issues that we will follow in the informals is, first of all, to thank the Chairman of the ACABQ for providing us with past cases.  And although my country's not -- does not belong to the common system, in terms of law, we recognize that this best experience is in the past occasions very close to this item, create the legal basis for us to act.  So we are, of course, also abide by the -- also -- we also have the Rule -- Rules of Procedures in the sight of our action.  So in terms of legal basis, I think it's fully covered.
On the historical issue on voluntary contributions, my delegation would also be very interested.  In particular, if we consider the voluntary contributions in this area that so -- not so long ago have colonialism and all kinds of measures that was fostering racism and racial discrimination.  So my -- I only believe that voluntary contributions you raise as humanity develops and I -- we have always to have an optimistic view on this issue.
And just to -- final point, just to say that the Fifth Committee is a technical body and I don't think we should be dealing -- bringing political issues from other committees into this setting.  So my delegation strongly favors for us to consider this item in the informal consultations, as proposed by the Portugal on behalf of the European Union and we can see that together with other interesting PBIs that are before us.  Thank you very much.
CHAIRMAN:  I thank the Distinguished Representative of Brazil.  I now give the floor to the Distinguished Representative of Pakistan.
PAKISTAN REPRESENTATIVE:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.  We have listened to this conversation of this morning very carefully.  And I tend to support Brazil and -- Distinguished Representative of Brazil and Distinguished Representative of Cuba, Portugal and Australia in their call to move this debate to the place where it belongs.
Of course, any issue could have several dimensions, but we have to bear in mind the -- at this particular stage, the lateness of the hour and with the Committee is in and the number of issues that we have to discuss.  And we are ready to engage as Group of 77 and China in this negotiation and we just want to reiterate the role of the Committee in such matters.
And we are also expressing our, I would say, disappointment, as I stated earlier, the way this PBI has been requested by the Secretary General.  We believe that a clear resolution indicating the future course of action has been adopted by the relevant committee and that should have been translated into the relevant financial statement for action by this Committee.  But we are now being put into another situation, which we do not agree with.  And, accordingly, we will pursue the -- that related -- the relevant course of action to ensure that the resources that are required at this preliminary stage are placed at the disposal of the Secretary General so he can proceed with the preparatory arrangements for the prep con.
And with regards to voluntary contribution, as far as my knowledge goes, the host governments, in the past, organized seminars and regional conferences, workshops on racism in the context of the first World Conference Against Racism.  And the host government itself contributed enormously to make that a success.
So I -- it is our understanding that bulk of the expenditure would be a -- our costs would be defrayed to the host coun- -- government as well as the other supporting governments in the region, who are organizing such meetings at regional level.
But there is -- as the General Assembly's main committee has adopted a resolution and has agreed on the United Nations' role in this process, we agree and support that understanding.  Our decision of the -- that committee and we hope that, in the due process, whatever further information is required would be brought before this committee through appropriate channels.  But we have, at this stage, a clear case for action, which is very important, as my distinguished colleague from South Africa mentioned.  An important signal from the United Nations that it is behind this conference and, given the sensitivity and the delicacy of the issue and explosive implications, I think that is what I earlier said would be most appropriate action on our part to support such financial request.  I thank you, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN:  I thank the Distinguished Representative of Pakistan.  I now give the floor to the Distinguished Representative of South Africa.
SOUTH AFRICA REPRESENTATIVE:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.  I couldn't agree more with remarks just made by the Distinguished Representative of Pakistan on behalf of the G77 and China.  Just to set the record straight, everyone will note that -- or recall that, in 2001, South Africa hosted the World Conference Against Racism and we basically covered all the costs, in spite of pledges and other things that had come our way.  We spent in the region of between 10 and 12 million U.S. dollars for the conference, from translation services, interpretation, you name it.  We -- and that was a much bigger conference, because it's -- it was a world conference.
This time, we're talking about regional conferences.  It's a regional conference, wherein we'll be hosting roughly 53 countries, including South Africa.  This pales into insignificance when you compare it to the World Summit -- rather, to the World Conference Against Racism.  South Africa has the capability and South Africa stands ready to do its all in the service of humanity to deal with the issue of racism.  I thank you, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN:  I thank the Distinguished Representative of South Africa.  I now give the floor to the Distinguished Representative of the United States.
UNITED STATES REPRESENTATIVE:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.  My delegation, of course, has no -- no objection at proceeding to informals to discuss further the questions that we raised.  And certainly it would appear to me that Secretariat can't answer some of our inquiry -- it would be unreasonable to think that they could do that spontaneously.  So we do seek that historical understanding, what's happened here and what has happened in other areas and other mandates where we sought to defer extra-budgetary costs.
One -- perhaps one area where we could just see clarity now and perhaps we'd have this information is What current commitments do we have to date on extra-budgetary resources to defray costs?  I assume that we have that information in some way before us, whatever the current commitments are, I would like, if we could, some understanding what those current commitments are.
And -- although, look, we've had, obviously, disagreements on other political realm about these matters in other areas, it does sound like that there is concerns and almost consensus, at least in part, between the United States and my friends from the G77 and China on the fact that the Secretariat does not have an appropriate budgetary vehicle before us.  And, accordingly, there could be no budgetary implications off of this doc- -- matter before us, because we do not have an appropriate budgetary analysis and we all understand the important procedures that we follow, particularly with a real review by the ACABQ of real budgetary estimates, not -- I think the expression that was used and I'm not sure I understand what this means, preliminary estimated additional resources. I think that is different than what the ACABQ typically looks at.
And so if we are seeking budgetary implications here, we should have real estimates and then we would really review them in ACABQ, I hope, and then we would appropriately review them here in the Fifth Committee.  So it does sound like we have some common ground together on that point, our concern about a lack of an appropriate budgetary vehicle in front of us.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and perhaps we can get clarity on those current extra-budgetary commitments to date.  Thank you.
CHAIRMAN:  I thank the Distinguished Representative of United States.  I now give the floor to the Distinguished Representative of Pakistan.
PAKISTAN REPRESENTATIVE:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.  I just want to respond to the Distinguished Ambassador of the United States that -- not that we have any difficulty in agreeing with the United States.  In fact, we would like them to be on board with us on almost all the issues; that would be a very positive development.  But, on this very issue, our understanding is somewhat different and -- from the understanding of the delegation of United States.
I just wanted to put it for record and, of course, I don't want to prolong the debate.  That is our request that we are ready to ask all the question and to establish the necessary bases of action and to make up our mind.  We are clear, but any other delegation who needs that information, obviously, it is very much in their right.  But, of course, the proper procedure for that question/answer, as we have followed, has been the informal consultations and we would tend to go to the -- to follow the established path in the consideration of such matters.  I thank you, Mr. Chairman.
CHAIRMAN:  I thank the Distinguished Representative of Pakistan and I think we, more or less, exhausted ourself in this process, but we will continue the debate and discussion in the informals.
So, if there are no further comment, this is -- United States, you have the floor.
UNITED STATES REPRESENTATIVE:  Mr. Chairman, I -- we have no objection to going into informals.  I did want to seek some clarity in this session here what the current commitments to date are for extra-budgetary resources.  I understand that it would be hard for the Secretariat to answer spontaneously the historical extra-budgetary resources that are raised, both for this conference and the other mandates which I've specifically and my delegation requests.  But I assume that we could answer right now, sitting here today, what the extra-budgetary resource commitments are today.  Thank you.
CHAIRMAN:  I thank the Ambassador of the United States and I give the floor to Miss Linda Wong.  Please.
LINDA WONG:  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.  With regard to the level of XB resources commitment to date, I will have to revert, Mr. Chairman.  I will provide the information at the informals -- the informals, because I have to refer to the Office of the High Commissioner in order to get the latest information from them.
With regard to the other information requested by the Distinguished Representative from the United States of America, we will also provide the information at the informals -- the informals, in writing, regard to the historical understanding of similar cases and what different mandates adopted that the costs were defrayed by true XB resources as well.  We will provide everything in writing.  Thank you.
CHAIRMAN:  I thank Miss Linda Wong for that clarification.  And, on that note -- and we have no further comments, the Committee has just concluded its general discussion on this Statement.
The informal consultation on this Statement will be held in conjunction with the other Programme Budget Implications under the Chairmanship of Miss Trina Imabak  of Norway.  Following the adjournment of this formal meeting, the Chair -- the committee will hold informal consultation on the items listed in today's journal.
This meeting is adjourned.
[END]








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